A different business model for PAT testing?

[HandsOffEngineer]

Is there a room in professional PAT testing for a business model other than 'per unit'?

I ask because I've been giving this some thought. I've just finished the 2377-22 course. Not with the intention of actually doing any PAT testing professionally, rather mainly for the purpose of my own 'in-house' testing for a handcraft luminaires business I intend to launch soon. Originally I was dead against the idea of offering testing to others, mainly because I think of it as rather dull and I also couldn't find any serious competition locally. You may find this counter-intuitive, but I sometimes take lack of competition to be an ominous sign for a new business idea, as to my way of thinking it may indicate a lack of demand for the product or service. If lots of people are doing the same thing, I often take that as a good sign, the only challenge being then to find a differentiator.

Anyway, I live in a tourist area and my tutor on the 2377-22 course has suggested I look into hotels, B&Bs and what not, and I've had a re-think about it. It could be done as a spin-off from my lamp business, using my machine tester, and would be a way of acquiring a bit of electrical experience on my path to (I hope) qualifying as an electrician; and, it affords me some experience of interacting with clients, maybe with a view to building up a client list of my own. Plus, you never know, I may make a bit of money out of it, if I can find a niche.

My understanding of the conventional business model for PAT testing is that you price per item tested and you have a minimum fee that you charge irrespective. Thus, typically 'Anywhereshire PAT Testers' might charge £1.50 per item tested with a minimum fee of, let's say, £50.00.

I've also noticed that one or two testing firms have a 'site fee', similar to the minimum fee, which applies at the lower end of the fee scale, and covers the provider's costs for site attendance in addition to item fees.

The per test fee tends to be scaled progressively according to number of items tested, with a 'POA' for testing over a certain limit depending on the provider's capacity - typically 'POA' might kick in at 10,000 items.

I realise that, in reality, many providers - especially the larger ones - have driven down pricing considerably, in some cases significantly below £1.00 per unit. I can only assume this is a risk sharing strategy on the part of client and provider (a sort of cost-driven Faustian bargain), in which the provider relies on value-added and spin-offs to achieve greater margins while the client is narrowly concerned with the trade-off of risk and is, in effect, paying to outsource compliance regardless of whether the provider is good, bad or indifferent. They simply don't care if the equipment is actually inspected properly or machine-tested or even looked at all.

Whatever the morals of all of this, it is commercially understandable, and the purpose of this thread is NOT to criticise it or get into a debate over the rights or wrongs of it. I merely seek to understand it because this pricing model, as I have outlined, seems to be ubiquitous to the industry. I have seen variations on the theme, but all providers seem to stick to this core model, albeit that some are more ethical than others. I have hunted high and low and cannot find anybody who departs from it - which is interesting in and of itself.

I am now going to outline a slightly different approach and invite constructive feedback:

(i). My interest would be in providing thorough, proper, ethical, competent in-service testing. I would take the emphasis off simple machine testing and instead emphasise advice/guidance about sound and pragmatic inspection and re-testing regimes for different types of devices, with the aim of both safety and long-term cost reduction.

(ii). I would charge a day rate or fixed overall job rate, rather than a per item rate. So instead of £1.00 per item or whatever, my price would be per job or visit - let's say for argument's sake, £75.00 per visit or £75.00 for the whole job.

(iii). I would visit clients with business premises over two days - the first day would be scoping, preparation and paperwork, and based on this I would provide the client with a quotation. If the quote is agreed, the second day would be the actual inspection and testing, and I would then e-mail the client the final report and invoice. For landlords, I would try to combine these steps into one single day so as to minimise disruption to tenants.

(iv). I would market my service to small, owner-managed businesses such as shops, B&Bs/guest houses, small hotels, professional firms, small officers, perhaps the smaller independent care homes, and letting agents/managing agents, HMO landlords, etc.

(v). I would set clear parameters to my service, based on my competence and capacity. I would make clear that I am not an electrician and cannot undertake general electrical work. I would seek to assist clients only with ordinary consumables that can be tested adequately using a basic device such as a Martindale HPAT600 or similar. I would not undertake Fixed Appliance Testing or testing of commercial/industrial scale equipment, especially those with switching parts. There are other exclusions, which I won't exhaust here.

(vi). I would stick to my local area - this helps me to control overheads and allows me to provide proper support to clients and makes testing/re-testing cycles more viable.

(vii). I would add value by offering free simple repairs (within clearly-defined parameters), free replacement electrical accessories such as bulbs and fuses (up to a given maximum) and discounted accessories over the maximum. I would also provide a government-licensed waste disposal service at no cost to the client in regard to items that 'Fail' and cannot be viably repaired.

Any thoughts, comments or advice? I ought to just make clear that I'm familiar with the basics of starting a business (insurance, etc.) and I've done a lot of my own research, but I have never run or offered electrical services to the public, even at a basic level such as PAT testing. It's just an idea at this stage.

I'm particularly interested in whether anybody here has tried (ii) above. If so, what was the response to that method of pricing? How was it put across to the client? If you abandoned this method, why was that?

I'm also interested in knowing whether it is worthwhile joining one of the schemes for PAT testers like NAPIT?

 

[Pete999]

Is there a room in professional PAT testing for a business model other than 'per unit'?

I ask because I've been giving this some thought. I've just finished the 2377-22 course. Not with the intention of actually doing any PAT testing professionally, rather mainly for the purpose of my own 'in-house' testing for a handcraft luminaires business I intend to launch soon. Originally I was dead against the idea of offering testing to others, mainly because I think of it as rather dull and I also couldn't find any serious competition locally. You may find this counter-intuitive, but I sometimes take lack of competition to be an ominous sign for a new business idea, as to my way of thinking it may indicate a lack of demand for the product or service. If lots of people are doing the same thing, I often take that as a good sign, the only challenge being then to find a differentiator.

Anyway, I live in a tourist area and my tutor on the 2377-22 course has suggested I look into hotels, B&Bs and what not, and I've had a re-think about it. It could be done as a spin-off from my lamp business, using my machine tester, and would be a way of acquiring a bit of electrical experience on my path to (I hope) qualifying as an electrician; and, it affords me some experience of interacting with clients, maybe with a view to building up a client list of my own. Plus, you never know, I may make a bit of money out of it, if I can find a niche.

My understanding of the conventional business model for PAT testing is that you price per item tested and you have a minimum fee that you charge irrespective. Thus, typically 'Anywhereshire PAT Testers' might charge £1.50 per item tested with a minimum fee of, let's say, £50.00.

I've also noticed that one or two testing firms have a 'site fee', similar to the minimum fee, which applies at the lower end of the fee scale, and covers the provider's costs for site attendance in addition to item fees.

The per test fee tends to be scaled progressively according to number of items tested, with a 'POA' for testing over a certain limit depending on the provider's capacity - typically 'POA' might kick in at 10,000 items.

I realise that, in reality, many providers - especially the larger ones - have driven down pricing considerably, in some cases significantly below £1.00 per unit. I can only assume this is a risk sharing strategy on the part of client and provider (a sort of cost-driven Faustian bargain), in which the provider relies on value-added and spin-offs to achieve greater margins while the client is narrowly concerned with the trade-off of risk and is, in effect, paying to outsource compliance regardless of whether the provider is good, bad or indifferent. They simply don't care if the equipment is actually inspected properly or machine-tested or even looked at all.

Whatever the morals of all of this, it is commercially understandable, and the purpose of this thread is NOT to criticise it or get into a debate over the rights or wrongs of it. I merely seek to understand it because this pricing model, as I have outlined, seems to be ubiquitous to the industry. I have seen variations on the theme, but all providers seem to stick to this core model, albeit that some are more ethical than others. I have hunted high and low and cannot find anybody who departs from it - which is interesting in and of itself.

I am now going to outline a slightly different approach and invite constructive feedback:

(i). My interest would be in providing thorough, proper, ethical, competent in-service testing. I would take the emphasis off simple machine testing and instead emphasise advice/guidance about sound and pragmatic inspection and re-testing regimes for different types of devices, with the aim of both safety and long-term cost reduction.

(ii). I would charge a day rate or fixed overall job rate, rather than a per item rate. So instead of £1.00 per item or whatever, my price would be per job or visit - let's say for argument's sake, £75.00 per visit or £75.00 for the whole job.

(iii). I would visit clients with business premises over two days - the first day would be scoping, preparation and paperwork, and based on this I would provide the client with a quotation. If the quote is agreed, the second day would be the actual inspection and testing, and I would then e-mail the client the final report and invoice. For landlords, I would try to combine these steps into one single day so as to minimise disruption to tenants.

(iv). I would market my service to small, owner-managed businesses such as shops, B&Bs/guest houses, small hotels, professional firms, small officers, perhaps the smaller independent care homes, and letting agents/managing agents, HMO landlords, etc.

(v). I would set clear parameters to my service, based on my competence and capacity. I would make clear that I am not an electrician and cannot undertake general electrical work. I would seek to assist clients only with ordinary consumables that can be tested adequately using a basic device such as a Martindale HPAT600 or similar. I would not undertake Fixed Appliance Testing or testing of commercial/industrial scale equipment, especially those with switching parts. There are other exclusions, which I won't exhaust here.

(vi). I would stick to my local area - this helps me to control overheads and allows me to provide proper support to clients and makes testing/re-testing cycles more viable.

(vii). I would add value by offering free simple repairs (within clearly-defined parameters), free replacement electrical accessories such as bulbs and fuses (up to a given maximum) and discounted accessories over the maximum. I would also provide a government-licensed waste disposal service at no cost to the client in regard to items that 'Fail' and cannot be viably repaired.

Any thoughts, comments or advice? I ought to just make clear that I'm familiar with the basics of starting a business (insurance, etc.) and I've done a lot of my own research, but I have never run or offered electrical services to the public, even at a basic level such as PAT testing. It's just an idea at this stage.

I'm particularly interested in whether anybody here has tried (ii) above. If so, what was the response to that method of pricing? How was it put across to the client? If you abandoned this method, why was that?

I'm also interested in knowing whether it is worthwhile joining one of the schemes for PAT testers like NAPIT?

You could do better if you referred to the testing by it's correct title, it's not PATtesting it's In Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment that refers to fixed, stationary equipment, such as hand driers, sanitary disposal units etc, not just plug in stuff, may get your proposed business plan off to a better start, if you get the terminology right in the first place.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

You could do better if you referred to the testing by it's correct title, it's not PATtesting it's In Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment that refers to fixed, stationary equipment, such as hand driers, sanitary disposal units etc, not just plug in stuff, may get your proposed business plan off to a better start, if you get the terminology right in the first place.

I know what it's called, I've read the Code of Practice cover-to-cover and word-for-word, but "PAT testing" [you'll notice I often put it in scare quotes, I do so for a reason] is the commonly-used term and I'll use it in marketing. This very Forum uses the phrase, as does virtually everybody here, as does literally everybody in the industry who carries out the testing. Rightly or wrongly, it's what people call it.

In fact, until you just commented, the only person on here who had referred to it by its proper terminology was MYSELF!

 

[DPG]

I would also try and stress the correct title as Pete says. Remember, probably the biggest part of the whole process is inspection, rather than test.

Saying that, people will always call it PAT testing.

 

[Pete999]

I would also try and stress the correct title as Pete says. Remember, probably the biggest part of the whole process is inspection, rather than test.

Saying that, people will always call it PAT testing.

The ill informed may Mate, don't make it right though does it??

 

[Midwest]

I think like most of these things, the market has already plenty of companies who offer Pat testing, sorry Pete ISITEE. It may be in your area you could have a little niche; you'll only know if you try.

I'm an electrician by trade, now working in maintenance. My employer is in the process of repairing & calibrating our PAT tester, so I can go round testing all our equipment. Which is really interesting, because only the other week I was informed it was impractical for me to replace luminaires on site, 'cos I don't have a mission statement, or necessary risk assessments. So if anything goes wrong its my risk, not the companies. Just like to share that.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

I apologise for my earlier response, it reflects a flaw in my character in that I don't like to be 'told' stuff, especially if I already know it. I'm too old to correct it now.

It is a good point you make that I could differentiate myself by referring to the process properly, so I will take that on board and think that through some more. My initial reaction to it, though, is that it will probably just cause confusion. I have in mind here the market I am aiming it, which isn't technically sophisticated, whereas they will have a broad idea what is meant by "PAT testing" and it's then up to me to differentiate myself.

 

[Pete999]

I think like most of these things, the market has already plenty of companies who offer Pat testing, sorry Pete ISITEE. It may be in your area you could have a little niche; you'll only know if you try.

I'm an electrician by trade, now working in maintenance. My employer is in the process of repairing & calibrating our PAT tester, so I can go round testing all our equipment. Which is really interesting, because only the other week I was informed it was impractical for me to replace luminaires on site, 'cos I don't have a mission statement, or necessary risk assessments. So if anything goes wrong its my risk, not the companies. Just like to share that.

Not just in my area Mate Country wide actually, just because you may call it PAT testing doesn't make it the correct designation, similar to " Electricians calling a RFC a ring main", lack of professional acumen in my book, a ring main can mean anything that's wired in a ring formation, take a HV ring as an example, pedantic ? maybe, but I'm right aren't' I ?
[automerge]1575821112[/automerge]

I know what it's called, I've read the Code of Practice cover-to-cover and word-for-word, but "PAT testing" [you'll notice I often put it in scare quotes, I do so for a reason] is the commonly-used term and I'll use it in marketing. This very Forum uses the phrase, as does virtually everybody here, as does literally everybody in the industry who carries out the testing. Rightly or wrongly, it's what people call it.

In fact, until you just commented, the only person on here who had referred to it by its proper terminology was MYSELF!

Carry on then Mate and good luck
[automerge]1575821269[/automerge]

I apologise for my earlier response, it reflects a flaw in my character in that I don't like to be 'told' stuff, especially if I already know it. I'm too old to correct it now.

It is a good point you make that I could differentiate myself by referring to the process properly, so I will take that on board and think that through some more. My initial reaction to it, though, is that it will probably just cause confusion. I have in mind here the market I am aiming it, which isn't technically sophisticated, whereas they will have a broad idea what is meant by "PAT testing" and it's then up to me to differentiate myself.

Nobody knows it all Mate, and no one is to old to be corrected, Tel will tell you age is just a number.

 

[Midwest]

Not just in my area Mate Country wide actually, just because you may call it PAT testing doesn't make it the correct designation, similar to " Electricians calling a RFC a ring main", lack of professional acumen in my book, a ring main can mean anything that's wired in a ring formation, take a HV ring as an example, pedantic ? maybe, but I'm right aren't' I ?

I'm with you all the way Pete, my remark was tongue in cheek.

 

[Pete999]

I know what it's called, I've read the Code of Practice cover-to-cover and word-for-word, but "PAT testing" [you'll notice I often put it in scare quotes, I do so for a reason] is the commonly-used term and I'll use it in marketing. This very Forum uses the phrase, as does virtually everybody here, as does literally everybody in the industry who carries out the testing. Rightly or wrongly, it's what people call it.

In fact, until you just commented, the only person on here who had referred to it by its proper terminology was MYSELF!

And Me of course

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Nobody knows it all Mate, and no one is to old to be corrected, Tel will tell you age is just a number.

Just to be clear, are you saying don't use the phrase "PAT testing" at all? The cogs are turning in my head about this and I'm starting to warm to the idea.

 

[Midwest]

Just to be clear, are you saying don't use the phrase "PAT testing" at all? The cogs are turning in my head about this and I'm starting to warm to the idea.

If you are thinking of this as a business, you could steal a mark on your competitors by using the right terminology. Not all electrical appliances are portable.

Have you read the H&S guidance on this subject?

 

[pirate]

Here is my tuppence worth...
Yes, there is a different business model other than "per unit", but everything depends upon your target customer.
I do PAT testing (ugghh!)
PA Testing...
ISITEE, the correct term...but I accept that most of MY target group will understand PAT Testing, so that label does have a place, despite its inaccuracy.

My target group is private landlords and small, local offices and businesses. This dictates my business model, as does the fact that I do not have to make a living out of it.

I get work from local estate agents who deal with rental properties. They have loads of "electricians" who do this stuff for them, because the tenancy agreement requires some form of certification that appropriate checks have been carried out to show that appliances in a rental property are safe for use...and most are happy that a "PAT test schedule" satisfies that requirement. ( I would mention that I am in Scotland, so there are different requirements here for the PRS-private rental sector).

My model is a simple charge for the inspection and testing, regardless of number of items. Why?
Because very few rentals have more than 20 items, some have 6, some have 30, but a fixed price quote evens everything out over time, and provides security of a fixed price for the landlord.

As for small businesses and offices, I usually have a quick look-see first, but still use a fixed price structure. Like my price? I'll do the job. Don't like? No problem, get a sticker jockey in. Those who are only concerned with price are those who are less concerned with safety and only want a piece of paper...these people are not my target.

My target group don't need/want digitally produced inventories, automatic emails, all that clever stuff...they want a list of tested items and a pass or fail. Anything more, I am likely to decline. There are many reasons for this, but that's a whole different topic.

Thus, as I said earlier, it's a question of choosing your customer group, and sticking to it. They know what you provide, you deliver, they pay, and job done. If you try to do absolutely all types of customers' works, you will end up with stuff you don't want. if you stick to your niche, all goes well and you sleep at night knowing you have done the right job.

Two points i would add:

1. If you won't test "fixed" items, you may find yourself out on a limb. For example, let's say you are testing a B&B. In bedroom 1 there is a wall-mounted heater, plugged into a socket. Easy job, plug it in, pass or fail. However, in bedroom 2 is an identical heater, but wired into a FCU. Do you refuse to test that one? In my view, you ought to have both the equipment and the knowledge to test that one too, else you are not providing the service that the customer requires. Nobody wants a list of stuff that is marked "Could not test". That is not really of much use to the often inexperienced customer...after all, he is hoping you will be his "one-stop" shop for all his "appliances". You won't get repeat business from him, or the introducer, because you didn't test stuff.

2. There can often be items that need replacement. For example, on FVI you find a 13A fuse in an item that should have a 3A or 5A fuse (that's another story, ok?). Do you charge for that replacement fuse? Of course not...not on a fixed price structure.
Does an ancient appliance with a "rogue plug" on it get failed because of that? No, of course not...not on a fixed price structure. If the L and N pins have no insulation, you put on a new plug...end of. Then, when you leave the venue, you have inspected, tested and fixed where appropriate, and the customer is happy. No need for further work, no need for disclaimers...writing a disclaimer takes more time that changing a plug or fuse, and a customer wants his job done and dusted. By all means write a disclaimer for matters where there really is no option, but don't fudge the issue because of a minor remedial matter which can be taken care of for a few pence.

The OP asked if there is another business model apart from "per item". I submit that there is. The above works for me, but I fully accept it will not work for everyone.
However, my attitude to risk, and my view of what is a proper service, means that I am always confident that the job I have done is complete, accurate and safe, for a fair price, with no comeback...and plenty of repeat business.

If you want to make a living out of ISITEE, good luck!
If you want a sideline which can lead to other work, go for it, do a proper job, and reap the longer term benefits.

 

[Flanders]

Is it not PA testing other wise you are saying portable appliance testing testing .Any way it would be great if you could charge a day rate for testing as charging per item just encourages the "put as many stickers on as you can " but unfortunately in this world a lot of customer are not interested in safety they just want a report saying all there stuff is safe for as cheap as possible. But saying that it could be a good idea running it along side your other business as non profit making exercise build up a good customer relationships. Then slowly building up your prices . I suppose the trick is convincing the customer that is worth paying more to have the job done properly.

 

[ferg]

Everyone calls it PAT testing.

The only person I ever heard call it anything else was an up his own rear letting agent who took great delight in correcting my terminology. To be fair though he was a pompous git and I don't think he could help himself.

If you don't call it PAT testing your customers won't know what on earth you are talking about.

 

[Pete999]

Everyone calls it PAT testing.

The only person I ever heard call it anything else was an up his own rear letting agent who took great delight in correcting my terminology. To be fair though he was a pompous git and I don't think he could help himself.

If you don't call it PAT testing your customers won't know what on earth you are talking about. Then your customer don't know their business.

What ever floats yer boat Mate

 

[Midwest]

Everyone calls it PAT testing.

The only person I ever heard call it anything else was an up his own rear letting agent who took great delight in correcting my terminology. To be fair though he was a pompous git and I don't think he could help himself.

If you don't call it PAT testing your customers won't know what on earth you are talking about.

You just need to educate your customers. Otherwise we can call bonding earthing, or earthing bonding. Then there’s r1 or R2, or amps or a or A or Kw or kW.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

If you are thinking of this as a business, you could steal a mark on your competitors by using the right terminology. Not all electrical appliances are portable.

Have you read the H&S guidance on this subject?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Note: While studying for my 2377-22, I read Scaddon (4th. edition) on this topic, who in his Preface states the following [p.vii]:

"All electrical equipments connected to the fixed wiring of an installation will need attention, not just portable appliances. I have, however, left the title of this book as PAT: Portable Appliance Testing as such words are now indelibly imprinted on our minds, even though it should read 'Inspection and Testing of In-Service Electrical Equipment'. PAT means an appliance tester that is portable, not a tester just for portable appliances!!".

 

[DPG]

I think you're right to refer to it as PAT testing, but I would educate each customer on the actual correct term and also the background of why we test and/or inspect

 

[Midwest]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Note: While studying for my 2377-22, I read Scaddon (4th. edition) on this topic, who in his Preface states the following [p.vii]:

"All electrical equipments connected to the fixed wiring of an installation will need attention, not just portable appliances. I have, however, left the title of this book as PAT: Portable Appliance Testing as such words are now indelibly imprinted on our minds, even though it should read 'Inspection and Testing of In-Service Electrical Equipment'. PAT means an appliance tester that is portable, not a tester just for portable appliances!!".

Just read H&S guidance, before you tell your customers they need PAT ISITEE testing.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Thanks for the comments.

1. If you won't test "fixed" items, you may find yourself out on a limb. For example, let's say you are testing a B&B. In bedroom 1 there is a wall-mounted heater, plugged into a socket. Easy job, plug it in, pass or fail. However, in bedroom 2 is an identical heater, but wired into a FCU. Do you refuse to test that one? In my view, you ought to have both the equipment and the knowledge to test that one too, else you are not providing the service that the customer requires. Nobody wants a list of stuff that is marked "Could not test". That is not really of much use to the often inexperienced customer...after all, he is hoping you will be his "one-stop" shop for all his "appliances". You won't get repeat business from him, or the introducer, because you didn't test stuff.

FAT may be a deal-breaker for me as far as this business idea goes. I appreciate that the electrician's domain is FIT, not FAT, so I am leaving a gap, but FAT is not taught on the practical element of 2377-22, despite it being clear from the Code of Practice that built-in/fixed appliances fall within the remit of Portable Appliance Testing.

In short, FAT is part of PAT, yet FAT is missed out on the main course for 'qualification'.

I'll have to look into it further and consider the feasibility of doing it. Aren't there any courses?

 

[Devonchris]

I read your business model as, your going to charge then £75 for day 1 to prepare an estimate?.

Can't see that working.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Just read H&S guidance, before you tell your customers they need PAT ISITEE testing.

I'm not a complete numpty, maybe just a bit of one. I'm not going to be going round telling people they have to have it done as a blanket procedure full stop. I do have some understanding and appreciate that clients will need advice/guidance to suit their circumstances and usage. Hopefully I conveyed this in my original post.

 

[ferg]

You just need to educate your customers. Otherwise we can call bonding earthing, or earthing bonding. Then there’s r1 or R2, or amps or a or A or Kw or kW.

Not really a good comparison as those are real technical terms that mean different things and confusing them really does make a difference.

PAT testing is more Hoover or Vacuum cleaner.

However someone calling sockets wall plugs pretty much causes me to have a stroke so I can see your point.

 

[pirate]

FAT is part of PAT...more a subset than an element...all part of ISITEE. All I was saying is that you need to be able to do simple testing of appliances that are not actually plugged in. You don't need a course on it, you need simple equipment that costs a few pounds. The principles are the same, just a wee bit of tweaking to do the tests, and an understanding of safe isolation.
Anyway, the tests are a tiny bit, the FVI much more. Going that extra step means you have tested all you can.
If you know how to test portable appliances, then you can do the odd fixed one...or stationary one...just do them all and give the customer his paperwork.
It's all about doing the job...

 

[plugsafelincs]

Is there a room in professional PAT testing for a business model other than 'per unit'?

I ask because I've been giving this some thought. I've just finished the 2377-22 course. Not with the intention of actually doing any PAT testing professionally, rather mainly for the purpose of my own 'in-house' testing for a handcraft luminaires business I intend to launch soon. Originally I was dead against the idea of offering testing to others, mainly because I think of it as rather dull and I also couldn't find any serious competition locally. You may find this counter-intuitive, but I sometimes take lack of competition to be an ominous sign for a new business idea, as to my way of thinking it may indicate a lack of demand for the product or service. If lots of people are doing the same thing, I often take that as a good sign, the only challenge being then to find a differentiator.

Anyway, I live in a tourist area and my tutor on the 2377-22 course has suggested I look into hotels, B&Bs and what not, and I've had a re-think about it. It could be done as a spin-off from my lamp business, using my machine tester, and would be a way of acquiring a bit of electrical experience on my path to (I hope) qualifying as an electrician; and, it affords me some experience of interacting with clients, maybe with a view to building up a client list of my own. Plus, you never know, I may make a bit of money out of it, if I can find a niche.

My understanding of the conventional business model for PAT testing is that you price per item tested and you have a minimum fee that you charge irrespective. Thus, typically 'Anywhereshire PAT Testers' might charge £1.50 per item tested with a minimum fee of, let's say, £50.00.

I've also noticed that one or two testing firms have a 'site fee', similar to the minimum fee, which applies at the lower end of the fee scale, and covers the provider's costs for site attendance in addition to item fees.

The per test fee tends to be scaled progressively according to number of items tested, with a 'POA' for testing over a certain limit depending on the provider's capacity - typically 'POA' might kick in at 10,000 items.

I realise that, in reality, many providers - especially the larger ones - have driven down pricing considerably, in some cases significantly below £1.00 per unit. I can only assume this is a risk sharing strategy on the part of client and provider (a sort of cost-driven Faustian bargain), in which the provider relies on value-added and spin-offs to achieve greater margins while the client is narrowly concerned with the trade-off of risk and is, in effect, paying to outsource compliance regardless of whether the provider is good, bad or indifferent. They simply don't care if the equipment is actually inspected properly or machine-tested or even looked at all.

Whatever the morals of all of this, it is commercially understandable, and the purpose of this thread is NOT to criticise it or get into a debate over the rights or wrongs of it. I merely seek to understand it because this pricing model, as I have outlined, seems to be ubiquitous to the industry. I have seen variations on the theme, but all providers seem to stick to this core model, albeit that some are more ethical than others. I have hunted high and low and cannot find anybody who departs from it - which is interesting in and of itself.

I am now going to outline a slightly different approach and invite constructive feedback:

(i). My interest would be in providing thorough, proper, ethical, competent in-service testing. I would take the emphasis off simple machine testing and instead emphasise advice/guidance about sound and pragmatic inspection and re-testing regimes for different types of devices, with the aim of both safety and long-term cost reduction.

(ii). I would charge a day rate or fixed overall job rate, rather than a per item rate. So instead of £1.00 per item or whatever, my price would be per job or visit - let's say for argument's sake, £75.00 per visit or £75.00 for the whole job.

(iii). I would visit clients with business premises over two days - the first day would be scoping, preparation and paperwork, and based on this I would provide the client with a quotation. If the quote is agreed, the second day would be the actual inspection and testing, and I would then e-mail the client the final report and invoice. For landlords, I would try to combine these steps into one single day so as to minimise disruption to tenants.

(iv). I would market my service to small, owner-managed businesses such as shops, B&Bs/guest houses, small hotels, professional firms, small officers, perhaps the smaller independent care homes, and letting agents/managing agents, HMO landlords, etc.

(v). I would set clear parameters to my service, based on my competence and capacity. I would make clear that I am not an electrician and cannot undertake general electrical work. I would seek to assist clients only with ordinary consumables that can be tested adequately using a basic device such as a Martindale HPAT600 or similar. I would not undertake Fixed Appliance Testing or testing of commercial/industrial scale equipment, especially those with switching parts. There are other exclusions, which I won't exhaust here.

(vi). I would stick to my local area - this helps me to control overheads and allows me to provide proper support to clients and makes testing/re-testing cycles more viable.

(vii). I would add value by offering free simple repairs (within clearly-defined parameters), free replacement electrical accessories such as bulbs and fuses (up to a given maximum) and discounted accessories over the maximum. I would also provide a government-licensed waste disposal service at no cost to the client in regard to items that 'Fail' and cannot be viably repaired.

Any thoughts, comments or advice? I ought to just make clear that I'm familiar with the basics of starting a business (insurance, etc.) and I've done a lot of my own research, but I have never run or offered electrical services to the pu

Hi. I am starting out, like you, and am also looking for a differentiator. there are several companies operating round here that quote 75p an item (although they are VAT registered so this is 90p an item in reality) and then they charge a fixed rate for the first x items etc. i got a quote for my other workplace and it averaged at 1.07 per item. the point is though they quote 75p and thats what the customer hears. other testers are quoting 1.75 or even 1.90 and seem to get business but i dont know how. its hard to explain about giving a good service with free repairs and replacement plugs etc etc when they simply look at price. i have been asked to quote for a big job (4000) items know i need to compete with these cheap companies. only thing in my favour is the-contracts manager is an ex electrical maintenance manager and hopefully understands the benefit of a good PAT tester vs a sticker monkey !

 

[Midwest]

I'm not a complete numpty, maybe just a bit of one.

Wasn't suggesting you were. But there's some think that PAT testing is statutory or the like.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Can anyone here say with certainty that it is possible to make a living from doing correct and thorough ISITEE, in competition with the sticker monkeys? I.e. not doing it as a loss leader but as a self-contained business?

Back in the days when we called it PAT, I was involved with setting up central ISITEE services for local authorities. Service users (business units of the LA) were being charged upwards of £2+VAT per item, but the service they got was superb. The key benefits many of them perceived were minimal disruption and maximum confidence in the work because they knew that the testing teams were knowledgeable, efficient, sensible, and trained and vetted by the LA's own service with CRB checks etc. This was important on large, busy and possibly sensitive sites like secondary schools.

IIRC £2 - 2.30 was what it took to do the job to the very highest standards 25 years ago (in London) including minor repairs, with no corners cut. The general inventory of equipiment has changed in that time, there is less weird old stuff but more slightly dodgy imported electronics, so I am not sure that the workload has decreased much. £2.50 and upwards might be nearer the mark now. I don't know whether that's acceptable.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

FAT is part of PAT...more a subset than an element...all part of ISITEE. All I was saying is that you need to be able to do simple testing of appliances that are not actually plugged in. You don't need a course on it, you need simple equipment that costs a few pounds. The principles are the same, just a wee bit of tweaking to do the tests, and an understanding of safe isolation.
Anyway, the tests are a tiny bit, the FVI much more. Going that extra step means you have tested all you can.
If you know how to test portable appliances, then you can do the odd fixed one...or stationary one...just do them all and give the customer his paperwork.
It's all about doing the job...

Thanks - I'm going to look at this. Thanks for the advice.
[automerge]1576452013[/automerge]

Hi. I am starting out, like you, and am also looking for a differentiator. there are several companies operating round here that quote 75p an item (although they are VAT registered so this is 90p an item in reality) and then they charge a fixed rate for the first x items etc. i got a quote for my other workplace and it averaged at 1.07 per item. the point is though they quote 75p and thats what the customer hears. other testers are quoting 1.75 or even 1.90 and seem to get business but i dont know how. its hard to explain about giving a good service with free repairs and replacement plugs etc etc when they simply look at price. i have been asked to quote for a big job (4000) items know i need to compete with these cheap companies. only thing in my favour is the-contracts manager is an ex electrical maintenance manager and hopefully understands the benefit of a good PAT tester vs a sticker monkey !

All the best with it.
[automerge]1576452049[/automerge]

Wasn't suggesting you were. But there's some think that PAT testing is statutory or the like.

Apologies, yes you're right that it's important to give the customer accurate information.
[automerge]1576452780[/automerge]

Can anyone here say with certainty that it is possible to make a living from doing correct and thorough ISITEE, in competition with the sticker monkeys? I.e. not doing it as a loss leader but as a self-contained business?

The reason I started this thread was to look at that very issue. Personally I think there is a potential market for ISITEE [which is what I am now calling it - I'm converted] done in a thorough and professional way, but it's probably going to be local with customers/clients who know you and want rounded advice/support.

This thread has really helped me and I've decided that, subject to finding a proper test machine, I'm going to give this a go. My business plan is that I will stick to my locality and target small owner-managed businesses, HMOs, professional firms and smaller SMEs. I won't be charging by the unit, I will charge a fixed daily fee instead, to reflect my time/labour.

As a result of advice I have received in this thread, I'm now going to call my work by its proper name: In Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment (ISITEE).

I'm not interested in the bigger clients. I don't have the capability or resources, but I think the big clients mostly are just engaged in 'risk-sharing'. They know the inspection and testing is not being done properly, it's a charade, but they pay the money to nominally comply [box-ticking exercise] and the "PAT testing" provider takes on some of the legal/regulatory risk as a 'certifier' with a paper trail in exchange for the money and the opportunity to provide various add-on services and build relationships.

Source URL: A different business model for PAT testing? - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/a-different-business-model-for-pat-testing.181122/#post-1595239
Back in the days when we called it PAT, I was involved with setting up central ISITEE services for local authorities. Service users (business units of the LA) were being charged upwards of £2+VAT per item, but the service they got was superb. The key benefits many of them perceived were minimal disruption and maximum confidence in the work because they knew that the testing teams were knowledgeable, efficient, sensible, and trained and vetted by the LA's own service with CRB checks etc. This was important on large, busy and possibly sensitive sites like secondary schools.

IIRC £2 - 2.30 was what it took to do the job to the very highest standards 25 years ago (in London) including minor repairs, with no corners cut. The general inventory of equipiment has changed in that time, there is less weird old stuff but more slightly dodgy imported electronics, so I am not sure that the workload has decreased much. £2.50 and upwards might be nearer the mark now. I don't know whether that's acceptable.

All good, but personally I am not interested in charging by the unit, nor do I want the hassle of bigger companies or bureaucratic clients like local authorities. I suspect the real money is to be made at the 'smaller' end of the market with business owners and HMOs that want a proper service that includes advice/guidance on managing electrical appliances. I have a broad skills base and lots of general experience - including in law, property management, manufacturing, and other areas, as well as electrical, so I think I can add something.

 

[Risteard]

In my opinion, by referring to it as "In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment" is not only a mouthful, but also unlikely to get you any work. Everyone refers to it as PAT Testing or Portable Appliance Testing, and the reality is that is what they are going to seek and ask for.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

In my opinion, by referring to it as "In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment" is not only a mouthful, but also unlikely to get you any work. Everyone refers to it as PAT Testing or Portable Appliance Testing, and the reality is that is what they are going to seek and ask for.

Thanks. My intention is to word it as something like "Electrical Appliance Inspection & Testing", then in the detail it would be called by its full name, ISITEE. I would also prominently include the words: commonly known as "PAT Testing".

I see it as adding a premium. I'm tailoring my communication to the more considered client who wants a reasonably thorough service.

 

[Pete999]

In my opinion, by referring to it as "In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment" is not only a mouthful, but also unlikely to get you any work. Everyone refers to it as PAT Testing or Portable Appliance Testing, and the reality is that is what they are going to seek and ask for.

I respect your opinion Risteard, but with a caveat, by making the name of the operation more pronounced, may make people with the responsibility for these testing procedure sit up and take more notice, you must be aware of the no need effect many people treat the PATesting, waste of time and all that, highlighting it with a new name will in my opinion highlight the need for such testing what ever it is called, duty holders on todays industry NEED to be made aware of the importance of ISITEE, far to many duty holders treat the old PAT regime with indifference by calling it what is should it may raise the importance of testing to ISITEE, in my opinion.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

I respect your opinion Risteard, but with a caveat, by making the name of the operation more pronounced, may make people with the responsibility for these testing procedure sit up and take more notice, you must be aware of the no need effect many people treat the PATesting, waste of time and all that, highlighting it with a new name will in my opinion highlight the need for such testing what ever it is called, duty holders on todays industry NEED to be made aware of the importance of ISITEE, far to many duty holders treat the old PAT regime with indifference by calling it what is should it may raise the importance of testing to ISITEE, in my opinion.

Very well said.

 

[Pete999]

Very well said.

Some common sense shown in this reply, in my opinion.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

FAT is part of PAT...more a subset than an element...all part of ISITEE. All I was saying is that you need to be able to do simple testing of appliances that are not actually plugged in. You don't need a course on it, you need simple equipment that costs a few pounds. The principles are the same, just a wee bit of tweaking to do the tests, and an understanding of safe isolation.
Anyway, the tests are a tiny bit, the FVI much more. Going that extra step means you have tested all you can.
If you know how to test portable appliances, then you can do the odd fixed one...or stationary one...just do them all and give the customer his paperwork.
It's all about doing the job...

I have a few questions. Forgive me if these seem naive, but I lack practical experience:

1. I assume when carrying out FAIT I am not just isolating at the FCU, even if switched? My understanding is that even if it is a BS 1363-4 compliant double-pole switched FCU, simply switching it to 'OFF' would not be a sufficiently-safe isolation for the purposes of FAIT, you have to go to the CCU/DB and isolate/lock-off the MCBO or the whole mains. Obviously if it's an unswitched FCU or there are other doubts, then the situation is more obvious.

2. If this is correct, then my next issue is that wouldn't most commercial/business premises, especially rented offices, have a shared CCU/DB under the control of the landlord? From a marketing point-of-view, it would be useless trying to sell the machine-testing side of FAIT to most commercial clients if they rent their premises. I'd have to make them aware of FAIT, carry out the FVI and make recommendations for follow-up ISITEE for fixed appliances based on the CoP, but to actually carry out the machine tests would involve approaching commercial landlords. Thus, it looks like a two-handed market and quite complicated, and this may explain why a lot of these "PAT testing" companies don't bother with FAIT.

3. Another query I have is about the method of testing. When carrying out FAIT, could point-to-point testing damage the customer's electrics, maybe by tripping the RCD? Based on what I've been reading (so far), I'm inclined to the view that the plug/adaptor method is best and point-to-point should be avoided, where possible.

4. Finally, I've been looking at some of the mains-powered testers, such as the Martindale EPAT2100. That model doesn't appear to have any sockets for point-to-point testing and there's nothing mentioned about it in the manual. Are there adaptors that can be purchased for this sort of model that will help with FAIT when wires cannot be re-terminated and point-to-point is necessary?

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Hello,

Does anybody have a reply to my comment above, please?

I hope everybody otherwise had an enjoyable break over Xmas and the New Year.

 

[pirate]

I use a terminal block and Wagos to test fixed appliances which are wired to FCUs. Basically all you are doing is "plugging in" the cable of the heater or whatever to a 13A plug which is then plugged into your tester. Obviously, you must isolate the FCU circuit first, and then it is just as if you are plugging the appliance in as usual.
This is a fairly common one, and used widely:

Quick Test Connector Safe Block

Bench or wall mountable Supplied with 2m UK plug Insulated L, N, E clips

www.tester.co.uk

A long lead and Wagos on the end, works ok.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

I use a terminal block and Wagos to test fixed appliances which are wired to FCUs. Basically all you are doing is "plugging in" the cable of the heater or whatever to a 13A plug which is then plugged into your tester. Obviously, you must isolate the FCU circuit first, and then it is just as if you are plugging the appliance in as usual.
This is a fairly common one, and used widely:

Quick Test Connector Safe Block

Bench or wall mountable Supplied with 2m UK plug Insulated L, N, E clips

www.tester.co.uk

A long lead and Wagos on the end, works ok.

Thanks for the information.

 

[oracle]

Is there a room in professional PAT testing for a business model other than 'per unit'?

I ask because I've been giving this some thought. I've just finished the 2377-22 course. Not with the intention of actually doing any PAT testing professionally, rather mainly for the purpose of my own 'in-house' testing for a handcraft luminaires business I intend to launch soon. Originally I was dead against the idea of offering testing to others, mainly because I think of it as rather dull and I also couldn't find any serious competition locally. You may find this counter-intuitive, but I sometimes take lack of competition to be an ominous sign for a new business idea, as to my way of thinking it may indicate a lack of demand for the product or service. If lots of people are doing the same thing, I often take that as a good sign, the only challenge being then to find a differentiator.

Anyway, I live in a tourist area and my tutor on the 2377-22 course has suggested I look into hotels, B&Bs and what not, and I've had a re-think about it. It could be done as a spin-off from my lamp business, using my machine tester, and would be a way of acquiring a bit of electrical experience on my path to (I hope) qualifying as an electrician; and, it affords me some experience of interacting with clients, maybe with a view to building up a client list of my own. Plus, you never know, I may make a bit of money out of it, if I can find a niche.

My understanding of the conventional business model for PAT testing is that you price per item tested and you have a minimum fee that you charge irrespective. Thus, typically 'Anywhereshire PAT Testers' might charge £1.50 per item tested with a minimum fee of, let's say, £50.00.

I've also noticed that one or two testing firms have a 'site fee', similar to the minimum fee, which applies at the lower end of the fee scale, and covers the provider's costs for site attendance in addition to item fees.

The per test fee tends to be scaled progressively according to number of items tested, with a 'POA' for testing over a certain limit depending on the provider's capacity - typically 'POA' might kick in at 10,000 items.

I realise that, in reality, many providers - especially the larger ones - have driven down pricing considerably, in some cases significantly below £1.00 per unit. I can only assume this is a risk sharing strategy on the part of client and provider (a sort of cost-driven Faustian bargain), in which the provider relies on value-added and spin-offs to achieve greater margins while the client is narrowly concerned with the trade-off of risk and is, in effect, paying to outsource compliance regardless of whether the provider is good, bad or indifferent. They simply don't care if the equipment is actually inspected properly or machine-tested or even looked at all.

Whatever the morals of all of this, it is commercially understandable, and the purpose of this thread is NOT to criticise it or get into a debate over the rights or wrongs of it. I merely seek to understand it because this pricing model, as I have outlined, seems to be ubiquitous to the industry. I have seen variations on the theme, but all providers seem to stick to this core model, albeit that some are more ethical than others. I have hunted high and low and cannot find anybody who departs from it - which is interesting in and of itself.

I am now going to outline a slightly different approach and invite constructive feedback:

(i). My interest would be in providing thorough, proper, ethical, competent in-service testing. I would take the emphasis off simple machine testing and instead emphasise advice/guidance about sound and pragmatic inspection and re-testing regimes for different types of devices, with the aim of both safety and long-term cost reduction.

(ii). I would charge a day rate or fixed overall job rate, rather than a per item rate. So instead of £1.00 per item or whatever, my price would be per job or visit - let's say for argument's sake, £75.00 per visit or £75.00 for the whole job.

(iii). I would visit clients with business premises over two days - the first day would be scoping, preparation and paperwork, and based on this I would provide the client with a quotation. If the quote is agreed, the second day would be the actual inspection and testing, and I would then e-mail the client the final report and invoice. For landlords, I would try to combine these steps into one single day so as to minimise disruption to tenants.

(iv). I would market my service to small, owner-managed businesses such as shops, B&Bs/guest houses, small hotels, professional firms, small officers, perhaps the smaller independent care homes, and letting agents/managing agents, HMO landlords, etc.

(v). I would set clear parameters to my service, based on my competence and capacity. I would make clear that I am not an electrician and cannot undertake general electrical work. I would seek to assist clients only with ordinary consumables that can be tested adequately using a basic device such as a Martindale HPAT600 or similar. I would not undertake Fixed Appliance Testing or testing of commercial/industrial scale equipment, especially those with switching parts. There are other exclusions, which I won't exhaust here.

(vi). I would stick to my local area - this helps me to control overheads and allows me to provide proper support to clients and makes testing/re-testing cycles more viable.

(vii). I would add value by offering free simple repairs (within clearly-defined parameters), free replacement electrical accessories such as bulbs and fuses (up to a given maximum) and discounted accessories over the maximum. I would also provide a government-licensed waste disposal service at no cost to the client in regard to items that 'Fail' and cannot be viably repaired.

Any thoughts, comments or advice? I ought to just make clear that I'm familiar with the basics of starting a business (insurance, etc.) and I've done a lot of my own research, but I have never run or offered electrical services to the public, even at a basic level such as PAT testing. It's just an idea at this stage.

I'm particularly interested in whether anybody here has tried (ii) above. If so, what was the response to that method of pricing? How was it put across to the client? If you abandoned this method, why was that?always gone

I'm also interested in knowing whether it is worthwhile joining one of the schemes for PAT testers like NAPIT?

I've always used a day rate for every day on site. Doing commercial including any machinery £300 in London area

 

[EricMark]

We would around every three months do the in service inspecting and testing of electrical equipment on our batching plant, no question it was potable it was moved as 22 articulated wagon loads, and the trailer wheels remained attached, it would take three electricians two days (the week end) to inspect and test, which included all safety switches, each gate opened to show machine stopped. We called it a service, and it did include checking the torque on some of the cables.

OK may be an extreme case, but be it a showman's ride, or batching plant we do have items which take a long time to test.

The inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment in may places I worked so split into three groups.
1) Equipment under maintenance contract things like vending machines.
2) Equipment not covered by 1) with a 13 or 16 amp plug.
3) The rest.
Not easy to inspect and test a hand drier, often it needs two people, so in the main it would be tested when doing the EICR or PIR as it was called then. And it was tested using an insulation tester, not the standard plug in PAT testing machine.

All items had to be on the equipment register, and the register would say if testing was to be done by the semi-skilled PAT testing team, this was before the Emma Shaw case, was not working there after the Emma Shaw case so not sure what happened about using semi-skilled labour after that case.

It was common to use electricians mates to do plug in testing, the Emma Shaw case was a game changer, and after that case electricians did all PAT testing, the idea of sending electricians mates on a PAT testing course went out of the window, at least where I worked.

We did start using contractors for both PIR and PAT testing, it was work which could be easy off loaded when busy, however it was short lived, due to errors found, we found for example a class I mag mount with a class II drill had been all tested as class II, and there was no earth connected to mag mount, the excuse was there was the double square showing class II but this was on the drill not the mag mount.

So in the main it returned to in house testing.

My boss said go for it, we have a remote depot go and do all PAT testing you have all day, but seen how long it takes, I was surprised, with the then top of range Robin, it did a self test every time plugged in, and it recorded it all on a floppy disc, shows how long ago, but that resulted if testing a PC I had to do whole test twice, once for lead set and once for PC, with cheaper manual testers would have just entered same results twice. So 6 hours for 40 items, had expected to do it a lot faster.

However this raised an issue, the machine took 3.4 minutes to go through the testing sequence with a class I item, so even not including time taken to get the item and plug it in, so maximum anyone can do in 8 hours is 137 so we can in an 8 hour day expect 60 to 120 items tested using the Robin tester set to times in the testing instruction book.

So as the building manager if you get 200 tests done in a day, can you accept it? Well if all class III I suppose so, and even all class II it would be possible. But unless cheating unlikely, and much of out time was taken up with questions like there was a Bosch drill here last year, where is it? Oh it was binned as burnt out, can I have copy of the disposal form please.

When one firm started doing the PAT testing they changed all the plant numbers giving new numbers to all tested with no cross reference provided, how can one maintain an equipment register when that happens.

I did get caught out with PAT testing, failed to keep workshop locked, so an item on the repair register could be taken out of the workshop, seems signs were not enough. An extension lead had been taken when we were not looking. I would have said guys fault for not following procedure and instructions but HSE did not take same view, lucky it was no me, to get fined because some one has stolen your extension lead out of your locker did not seem fair to me, but that is what happened, seems red stickers saying do not use is not enough.

 

[oracle]

We would around every three months do the in service inspecting and testing of electrical equipment on our batching plant, no question it was potable it was moved as 22 articulated wagon loads, and the trailer wheels remained attached, it would take three electricians two days (the week end) to inspect and test, which included all safety switches, each gate opened to show machine stopped. We called it a service, and it did include checking the torque on some of the cables.

OK may be an extreme case, but be it a showman's ride, or batching plant we do have items which take a long time to test.

The inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment in may places I worked so split into three groups.
1) Equipment under maintenance contract things like vending machines.
2) Equipment not covered by 1) with a 13 or 16 amp plug.
3) The rest.
Not easy to inspect and test a hand drier, often it needs two people, so in the main it would be tested when doing the EICR or PIR as it was called then. And it was tested using an insulation tester, not the standard plug in PAT testing machine.

All items had to be on the equipment register, and the register would say if testing was to be done by the semi-skilled PAT testing team, this was before the Emma Shaw case, was not working there after the Emma Shaw case so not sure what happened about using semi-skilled labour after that case.

It was common to use electricians mates to do plug in testing, the Emma Shaw case was a game changer, and after that case electricians did all PAT testing, the idea of sending electricians mates on a PAT testing course went out of the window, at least where I worked.

We did start using contractors for both PIR and PAT testing, it was work which could be easy off loaded when busy, however it was short lived, due to errors found, we found for example a class I mag mount with a class II drill had been all tested as class II, and there was no earth connected to mag mount, the excuse was there was the double square showing class II but this was on the drill not the mag mount.

So in the main it returned to in house testing.

My boss said go for it, we have a remote depot go and do all PAT testing you have all day, but seen how long it takes, I was surprised, with the then top of range Robin, it did a self test every time plugged in, and it recorded it all on a floppy disc, shows how long ago, but that resulted if testing a PC I had to do whole test twice, once for lead set and once for PC, with cheaper manual testers would have just entered same results twice. So 6 hours for 40 items, had expected to do it a lot faster.

However this raised an issue, the machine took 3.4 minutes to go through the testing sequence with a class I item, so even not including time taken to get the item and plug it in, so maximum anyone can do in 8 hours is 137 so we can in an 8 hour day expect 60 to 120 items tested using the Robin tester set to times in the testing instruction book.

So as the building manager if you get 200 tests done in a day, can you accept it? Well if all class III I suppose so, and even all class II it would be possible. But unless cheating unlikely, and much of out time was taken up with questions like there was a Bosch drill here last year, where is it? Oh it was binned as burnt out, can I have copy of the disposal form please.

When one firm started doing the PAT testing they changed all the plant numbers giving new numbers to all tested with no cross reference provided, how can one maintain an equipment register when that happens.

I did get caught out with PAT testing, failed to keep workshop locked, so an item on the repair register could be taken out of the workshop, seems signs were not enough. An extension lead had been taken when we were not looking. I would have said guys fault for not following procedure and instructions but HSE did not take same view, lucky it was no me, to get fined because some one has stolen your extension lead out of your locker did not seem fair to me, but that is what happened, seems red stickers saying do not use is not enough.

I also remember testing electrical equipment long ago, from a drill to huge plant equipment including three phase motors with a continuity / insulation tester, same principles as now, but done by responsible, qualified electricians.