Building Regulations breached?

[adriana]

Can anyone please, tell me is there any sign of breach of Building Regulations here? My new build has been built with space for a single meter box, however, a second one was installed at a later stage. The latest borescope inspection has revealed that there is no lintel above the second box and DPC or cavity tray is missing, also the second box is installed a lot higher than 1100mm from Gr.level. I have also noticed that there multiple unnecessary holes incorrectly cut (sharp edges) to cable entry position.

please, if is any qualified Electrical Engineer to give me some advice, I will much appreciate it.
Just a quick note: The house is still under NHBC warranty.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Standard new build I’m afraid , some of the stuff I seen on new builds in recent years is truly shocking

 

[adriana]

Standard new build I’m afraid , some of the stuff I seen on new builds in recent years is truly shocking

Hello Sir.
Would this issue qualify as a breach in Building Regulations? I assume it will, but better check with a qualified Electrician before contacting NHBC.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Hello Sir.
Would this issue qualify as a breach in Building Regulations? I assume it will, but better check with a qualified Electrician before contacting NHBC.

Missing lintel supports , missing DPC , fire barrier breaches , any potential structural defect will fall under building issues not electrical problems

 

[Midwest]

Can I ask why the second meter box was installed and who requested it, bearing in mind this is a new build.

 

[adriana]

Can I ask why the second meter box was installed and who requested it, bearing in mind this is a new build.

Hi
I will never know why the 2 nd Box was installed, this is the way we got the House from new.

 

[davesparks]

Can I ask why the second meter box was installed and who requested it, bearing in mind this is a new build.

It looks like it was installed to house the DP MCB protecting the SWA submain.

 

[Midwest]

Hi
I will never know why the 2 nd Box was installed, this is the way we got the House from new.

Where is your consumer unit (fuse board) located in relation to these meter boxes?

 

[adriana]

It looks like it was installed to house the DP MCB protecting the SWA submain.

Is there any chance to explain to me in other words, please. Im not an electrician, Im just a poor desperate woman Who tries hard to understand what is right and what is wrong. So far I spent 6 months reading the Building regs, but it's still a lot to learn. All I know is if something is not right with a New Build, then We must be protected by NHBC. Sadly is not always the case.
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Where is your consumer unit (fuse board) located in relation to these meter boxes?

my consumer unit is on the other side of the house, 5 meters from the Meter box.

 

[PEG]

Hi,who is the builder?
This may give us an indication of how much help you may receive?

I don't need any further information,however,to inform you that the NHBC will be zero help.

 

[Midwest]

Even a lay person can see that both these boxes have not been installed with any professionalism. Have you asked the developer to comment on the installation method and the various holes that have been left?

I don’t seem to notice any cavity insulation either. Is that not a requirement.

 

[adriana]

It looks like it was installed to house the DP MCB protecting the SWA submain.

This is something I dont understand, space in the 1st Box permitted to install everything in only one box.

 

[Midwest]

Is there any chance to explain to me in other words, please. Im not an electrician, Im just a poor desperate woman Who tries hard to understand what is right and what is wrong. So far I spent 6 months reading the Building regs, but it's still a lot to learn. All I know is if something is not right with a New Build, then We must be protected by NHBC. Sadly is not always the case.
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my consumer unit is on the other side of the house, 5 meters from the Meter box.

That’s poor design then; because your CU is over 3 metres away from the meter, it will require a switch fuse to provide protection to that black cable. Something you don’t have, and something that should of had better design in the first place.

Do house of the same style of yours have the same set up?

 

[davesparks]

That’s poor design then; because your CU is over 3 metres away from the meter, it will require a switch fuse to provide protection to that black cable. Something you don’t have, and something that should of had better design in the first place.

Do house of the same style of yours have the same set up?

Whilst it is a poor design choice the DP MCB in the top meter box will provide adequate protection.
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This is something I dont understand, space in the 1st Box permitted to install everything in only one box.

In theory yes there is space, but in reality the equipment in the top box would have been fitted before the meter was installed and the meter fitters would likely have created a fuss if it had been installed in the bottom box.

 

[adriana]

Even a lay person can see that both these boxes have not been installed with any professionalism. Have you asked the developer to comment on the installation method and the various holes that have been left?

I don’t seem to notice any cavity insulation either. Is that not a requirement.

Yes, you are absolutely right, the insulation is missing. The developer can no longer be involved as 2 years have passed, this could only classify as 3-10 years BuildMark Warranty Cover from NHBC.

 

[Midwest]

Whilst it is a poor design choice the DP MCB in the top meter box will provide adequate protection.
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In theory yes there is space, but in reality the equipment in the top box would have been fitted before the meter was installed and the meter fitters would likely have created a fuss if it had been installed in the bottom box.

It is a poor design, seems almost like an after thought, or the designer was unaware of DNO requirements.

 

[adriana]

Whilst it is a poor design choice the DP MCB in the top meter box will provide adequate protection.
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In theory yes there is space, but in reality the equipment in the top box would have been fitted before the meter was installed and the meter fitters would likely have created a fuss if it had been installed in the bottom box.

The other Houses within the same development have only one meter box, but it is located to the front elevation, much closer to the consumer unit.

 

[Midwest]

The other Houses within the same development have only one meter box, but it is located to the front elevation, much closer to the consumer unit.

Someone dropped a clanger then, and placed the electrical supply cable in the wrong place!

Have you made contact with NHBC? Just because the 2 year developers warranty has passed, doesn’t negate them from responsibility for poor workman ship.
I would consider getting some legal advice at this late stage; did you buy this house from new, or are you a subsequent owner?

 

[adriana]

Someone dropped a clanger then, and placed the electrical supply cable in the wrong place!

Have you made contact with NHBC? Just because the 2 year developers warranty has passed, doesn’t negate them from responsibility for poor workman ship.
I would consider getting some legal advice at this late stage; did you buy this house from new, or are you a subsequent owner?

I purchased the House from new.

 

[PEG]

They are on for a 30%+ fall in profits,come January....maybe they started cutting costs way before....
Not much joy in saying that,going off pictures and experience,you will be stuck with the current arrangement,unless rectified at your own expense.

 

[adriana]

They are on for a 30%+ fall in profits,come January....maybe they started cutting costs way before....
Not much joy in saying that,going off pictures and experience,you will be stuck with the current arrangement,unless rectified at your own expense.

Bearing in mind that there is no lintel supporting the 2nd Box and DPC missing, is there any danger on leaving the things as it is? Ther is also no insulation at all that part of the wall and that wall is backing my downstairs toilet, is really freezing in there during winter time.

 

[Midwest]

Bearing in mind that there is no lintel supporting the 2nd Box and DPC missing, is there any danger on leaving the things as it is? Ther is also no insulation at all that part of the wall and that wall is backing my downstairs toilet, is really freezing in there during winter time.

I’d suggest following my advice in #18, that’s what I would be doing if I discovered missing cavity wall insulation.

The other issues could be considered latent defects as well.
Consult a solicitor, you could start with your conveyancing solicitor.

 

[adriana]

I’d suggest following my advice in #18, that’s what I would be doing if I discovered missing cavity wall insulation.

The other issues could be considered latent defects as well.
Consult a solicitor, you could start with your conveyancing solicitor.

Thank you very much for the advice and your time, I will certainly try getting a legal advice here.

 

[Midwest]

Thank you very much for the advice and your time, I will certainly try getting a legal advice here.

Good luck, let us know how you get on. FYI as far as I’m aware in my new build, the meter boxes do not have a lintel above, nor a cavity tray. They have however been installed properly.

 

[Deleted account]

Hi
I will never know why the 2 nd Box was installed, this is the way we got the House from new.

I can answer that one. Due to the size of the new smart meters DNO’s are insisting that a fused double pole isolator is not in the same box as the main cut out as it won’t fit.
Personally I think this is nonsense as I’ve seem large metal fused clad double pole isolators and cut out and meter fit no problem. This gave me a major headache on a job I did this year.
But if the DNO insist on this then i and the builders in your case have to comply.

As for the photos I don’t see anything that breaches BS7671.

 

[Midwest]

As for the photos I don’t see anything that breaches BS7671.

Don‘t think BS7671 applies here (more of DNO guidance), perhaps the top one. But I do think all the unnecessary holes should of been sealed up, or not made in the first place. Guess it’s their cock up for putting the supply cable in the wrong place. Possibly the first plot of that style built

 

[adriana]

Don‘t think BS7671 applies here (more of DNO guidance), perhaps the top one. But I do think all the unnecessary holes should of been sealed up, or not made in the first place. Guess it’s their cock up for putting the supply cable in the wrong place. Possibly the first plot of that style built

That was actually the last plot built, and was rushed a lot, and completed just days before Christmas

 

[DPG]

Can't believe they haven't put cavity insulation in!! Have you checked the other walls for the same thing?

 

[buzzlightyear]

its nice to see some body's work did the house come with a free mouse trap cause if sow mice are good climbers .

 

[adriana]

Can't believe they haven't put cavity insulation in!! Have you checked the other walls for the same thing?

yes, all walls were checked and yes, lots of uninsulated voids. Luckily this was reported to Builder within the first 2 years, so they can not go away with this.

 

[DPG]

yes, all walls were checked and yes, lots of uninsulated voids. Luckily this was reported to Builder within the first 2 years, so they can not go away with this.

Really shocking that they would do this - it's not exactly hard to put cavity insulation in while the build is in progress.

Out of interest could you post a photo of your consumer unit.

 

[buzzlightyear]

this government needs to crack down on those builders making monie for customers by saying the government backed scams .

 

[adriana]

Really shocking that they would do this - it's not exactly hard to put cavity insulation in while the build is in progress.

Out of interest could you post a photo of your consumer unit.

yes, sure, please, see it attached, the last drawing shows the location of the consumer Unit

 

[DPG]

Thanks. Was expecting worse.
Just noticed the coat hooks underneath - are there no cables coming down the wall from the consumer unit?

 

[adriana]

Thanks. Was expecting worse.
Just noticed the coat hooks underneath - are there no cables coming down the wall from the consumer unit?

No cable down the wall, all cables are routed above the consumer unit.

 

[buzzlightyear]

out of interest that board was fitted in 18/11/2018 saw how come that c/board is plastic and not metal ammentment 3 2015.or am I wrong .

 

[westward10]

It would depend on when it was designed, if this was prior to the metal consumer unit requirements then it could in theory still be installed today.

 

[Midwest]

yes, all walls were checked and yes, lots of uninsulated voids. Luckily this was reported to Builder within the first 2 years, so they can not go away with this.

This, as already stated, needs to be raised with NHBC.

 

[pirate]

Take legal advice here.
Rush job before Christmas.
Missing insulation and possibly fire-checks.
Sadly, all too common in new-builds.
Sadly, NHBC are too busy with really bad stuff, whereas this is relatively minor, and they don't have the staff or the stomach or the guts to sort these things.
I saw one case almost exactly like this a few years ago...missing insulation was pumped in, and it filled the meter box too...
If the missing insulation was notified within the first 2 years then the builder should be made to rectify this, but you will probably find that subcontractors are blamed and the dispute will go on for a long time.
Sadly, there just isn't enough money to pay local authority BC departments to get the staff to check ongoing building works.
If I were in your situation, I would ask LA for a grant for the insulation, and have the meter boxes protected while the insulation is inserted.

 

[James]

as above, start with your conveyancing solicitor.
they should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[PEG]

Unfortunately,the conveyancing solicitor's arm,will have the same,slight curve in it,and will direct the OP in a giant circle...

There are loads of estates,going back to new-builds in the 90's,one right near me,where the properties are legendary,for missing insulation,due to gangs of brickies,dragging the same four pieces of full-fill,up the cavity...look like a tiger's head,on the FLIR.

New builds,in this country,are more in need of a thorough survey,than a 200 year old cottage,but various schemes,obviate that....and it's a shame ?

A quick trawl,on the internet,will show the magnitude and nature,of some of these developments...it also shows up the level of help available,and likelyhood of a satisfactory conclusion.

Having seen footings poured on tipped ground,piles a shovels depth,and whole properties with missing insulation,cavity closers and wall-ties....there is nothing left,on a brand-new,executive development,which would surprise me

 

[davesparks]

But it's ok because it's all been checked for building regs compliance by the independant building control officer, none of those local authority bco's with their sticking to the rules and regulations nonsense.

 

[adriana]

out of interest that board was fitted in 18/11/2018 saw how come that c/board is plastic and not metal ammentment 3 2015.or am I wrong .

It was fitted in December 2015

 

[Deleted account]

Yes, you are absolutely right, the insulation is missing. The developer can no longer be involved as 2 years have passed, this could only classify as 3-10 years BuildMark Warranty Cover from NHBC.

It was fitted in December 2015

if the board was fitted in December 2015, 4 years ago am I missing something that only 2 years have passed.

 

[adriana]

if the board was fitted in December 2015, 4 years ago am I missing something that only 2 years have passed.

yes, 4 years to now. The house is under 10 years build Mark Warranty, the first 2 years are from Builder, then from year 3 to 10 is with NHBC.

 

[Midwest]

Unfortunately,the conveyancing solicitor's arm,will have the same,slight curve in it,and will direct the OP in a giant circle...

There are loads of estates,going back to new-builds in the 90's,one right near me,where the properties are legendary,for missing insulation,due to gangs of brickies,dragging the same four pieces of full-fill,up the cavity...look like a tiger's head,on the FLIR.

New builds,in this country,are more in need of a thorough survey,than a 200 year old cottage,but various schemes,obviate that....and it's a shame ?

A quick trawl,on the internet,will show the magnitude and nature,of some of these developments...it also shows up the level of help available,and likelyhood of a satisfactory conclusion.

Having seen footings poured on tipped ground,piles a shovels depth,and whole properties with missing insulation,cavity closers and wall-ties....there is nothing left,on a brand-new,executive development,which would surprise me

Can’t argue with what you’ve seen. However, not all developments are the same. I moved into a new build last year, the forth new build house I’ve had. Never had a major problem with any of them. All minor snags were rectified promptly.

Cant comment on the local building inspector, but my conveyancing solicitor was waiting on the NHBC inspection before we exchanged on my latest new build. It was delayed, because the downstairs toilet was 10mm out of position, therefore not complying with Part M.

So you just need the right developer and trustworthy solicitor. The only dodgy characters I’ve found, are estate agents. But you don’t need them to buy a new build.
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yes, 4 years to now. The house is under 10 years build Mark Warranty, the first 2 years are from Builder, then from year 3 to 10 is with NHBC.

Go and get some legal advice. You can get a half hour consultation for less than a tank full of petrol. Then you will know where you stand.

 

[PEG]

Fair enough? and there are the odd,exemplary development,i have viewed - but always at the higher end of the spectrum and smaller,non-nationwide construction outfits.
They are mostly using private inspection companies,nowadays,which can bring other problems...

On the larger projects,i cannot remember anyone mentioning a toilet being 10mm out,but i do remember the toilets that collapsed through flooring,and ones where the soil pipe went to a garden soakaway ?

....oh,and me favourite puzzle,was where the bathroom door did not open all the way,when the toilet lid was down ?

 

[Midwest]

When’s a new build not classed any longer as a new build. Like my first new build I bought in 1979, or my parents house they bought in 1950, which was built in 1895

 

[adriana]

Can’t argue with what you’ve seen. However, not all developments are the same. I moved into a new build last year, the forth new build house I’ve had. Never had a major problem with any of them. All minor snags were rectified promptly.

Cant comment on the local building inspector, but my conveyancing solicitor was waiting on the NHBC inspection before we exchanged on my latest new build. It was delayed, because the downstairs toilet was 10mm out of position, therefore not complying with Part M.

So you just need the right developer and trustworthy solicitor. The only dodgy characters I’ve found, are estate agents. But you don’t need them to buy a new build.
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Go and get some legal advice. You can get a half hour consultation for less than a tank full of petrol. Then you will know where you stand.

Funny thing, I requested The NHBC inspection documents and the house passed all inspections, however, that piece of paper only shows some dates and what actually was inspected. What caught my attention is the Floor structure inspection. I can not believe the Building Inspector could not see such obvious defects.

 

[Midwest]

I’m looking from my phone, but can’t see what’s wrong?